This week’s podcast: “The Elephant in the Chronic Pediatric Waiting Room” with Dr. Paul Thomas, author of “The Vaccine-Friendly Plan”, is the epitome of game-changing…and is sure to drum up some constructive controversy.
Whether you’re pro-vaccine, anti-vaccine or unsure what to make of it all, you owe it to yourself to listen to Dr. Thomas’ insights and findings on the current vaccine schedule and chronic pediatric ailments, like Autism (the elephant in the room).
If you’re still not convinced that exploring this is wise, consider the cost of Autism.
It now affects a whopping 1 in 36 children to the tune of 1-3 million dollars over a lifetime…that comes out up to 100,000 dollars per person just for the monetary cost of Autism (to say nothing of the emotional and social implications faced by these families).
Tune in for this all-important topic today and learn:
- What Dr. Thomas, a pro-vaccine physician, noticed about the unvaccinated children in his practice that changed the way he practiced medicine
- Details of what he’s discovered as a cause of autism in his patient population
- His sensible strategy for educating parents and administering vaccines to minimize the likelihood of complications
- All about his new ground-breaking registry, where he and his team are gathering 1000 fully-vaccinated children, 1000 unvaccinated children and thousands in-between to observe and track their health for 18 years
If we are serious about solving chronic disease worldwide, we must start by bravely exploring all possible causes of modern pediatric chronic disease.
We cannot continue turn a blind eye to the elephant in the room—no matter how controversial that elephant may seem.
And be sure to tune in for January’s Functional Forum: The Evolution of Pediatrics.
Resources mentioned in this podcast:
- MITKUS STUDY: Updated Aluminum Pharmacokinetics Following Infant Exposures Through Diet and Vaccination (right click to download the PDF)
- Aluminum and Brain Tissue and Autism – Journal of Trace Elements in Medicine and Biology
- Pilot Comparative Study on the Health of Vaccinated and Unvaccinated 6- to 12-year-old U.S. children by Tony Mawson (right click to download the PDF)
- Pediatric Health Outcomes Initiative: phoinitiative.org
- Physicians for Informed Consent, PIC, physiciansforinformedconsent.org
- The Vaccine Friendly Plan by Dr. Paul Thomas & Jennifer Margulis (Amazon.com link)
- Vaccines and Auto Immunity by Yehuda Shoenfeld (Amazon.com link)
Announcer: Welcome to the Evolution of Medicine podcast, the place health professionals come to hear from innovators and agitators leading the charge. We cover the latest clinical breakthroughs in health technology as well as practical tools to help transform your practice and the health of your community. Now here’s your host James Maskell.
James Maskell: Hello and welcome to the podcast. This week we are talking with Dr. Paul Thomas, a pediatrician from Portland, Oregon in anticipation of our functional forum, The Evolution of Pediatrics, which is on Monday night, January the 8th, which you can see at functionalforum.com. It was a pretty wide ranging interview. We went longer than normal, but what we did talk about was some very interesting topics including a new study looking at aluminium in the brains of kids on the autism spectrum. We also had an opportunity to talk about some of his new endeavors, a registry that he’s doing to look at outcome studies from vaccinated versus non-vaccinated kids. It was a really, really interesting forty-five minutes. I think if you really care about chronic disease and you care about what is it gonna take to evolve medicine to deal effectively with chronic disease, we have to have this conversation, we have to have this conversation. Here’s Dr. Paul Thomas. A warm welcome to the podcast Dr. Paul Thomas. Welcome doc.
Dr. Paul Thomas: Thanks James. Happy to be here.
James Maskell: Really excited to have you making your debut on our platform. I’ve been following your work for a number of years, I’ve really enjoyed your book and obviously some of the writing you’ve done on line. It’s a very interesting time to talk about pediatrics, we have the Evolution of Pediatrics this month on the Functional Forum and we’re gonna be getting into it all month.
Maybe we could just start … I know everyone who sort of ends up in this world has an interesting story of their career progression and I know you have an interesting tale to tell that formed the basis of your book. Maybe we could just start with that.
Dr. Paul Thomas: Sounds good. Thanks for having me on James. So I was raised in Africa, Zimbabwe and I just say that to mention that I came from an environment that was very different than the environment that kids are growing up in today. We ate fruit and vegetables out of the garden, there were no pesticides, herbicides, toxins like we are experiencing today. That’s just a little background.
I went to Dartmouth Medical School, fell in love with pediatrics, I love children, I love interacting with … It’s just a good fit for me. I graduated from Dartmouth, went to my residency training in California, I had a great three year residency, I’m board certified in pediatrics and I hit the pediatric word in 1988, board eligible, was teaching residents in medical school here in Portland, Oregon where I live now and I was a total believer that the most important thing I could do as a pediatrician was to vaccinate. This was the holy grail of preventative health that we were being taught. In residency, I witnessed children’s hospitals with a lot of meningitis, a lot of devastation from infectious diseases back in the eighties and I saw improvement in those numbers when we added for example, the HIB vaccine for Haemophilus Influenza. So it kind of confirmed my training that this is the thing to do.
Fast forward to the 2000’s. I’m at this point in private practice with a very large practice, probably a couple thousand patients of my own, our group practice had probably close to eight or ten thousand patients and we were starting to see a lot of kids not doing well.
What happened for me personally was, four years in a row, I had a child in my practice who was completely normal neurologically and developmentally at age one, become severely autistic by age two. This was … The last case was November of 2007. I walked into what was supposed to be a well two year old visit and this little fellow, I’ll call him Jack, was in a little push stroller with his back to the window and his head was just bouncing back and forth. I’m “Jack, Jack.” I’m trying to connect to this little fellow and he was gone. He was completely disconnected from his world. I looked back and he had been coming along just fine. If this had been the first case, I probably would have written it off as a coincidence, but sadly, shame on me, it took me four cases to wake up and go “Enough’s enough. I cannot continue to ignore that something horrible is going on here.”
I’d already been involved with doing a lot of my own research at that point, looking into the causes. We were worried about mercury in the early 2000’s, it’s still a huge neuro toxin. You don’t want to inject a flu shot that’s from a multi dose vial because it’s got 25 micrograms of mercury. It’s insane to be injecting mercury and we were doing that up until about 2001, 2002 here in the United States. The other thing that happened in 2001, 2002 here in the United States, is across the country, there’s this massive push to move the Hepatitis B vaccine from teenagers, which is when we used to do it back then, to newborns. So most people know today that Hepatitis B vaccine is being given to newborns on day one of life, usually within minutes of birth and it made no sense. Let me explain.
You catch Hepatitis B from sex and IV drug use. Babies don’t do that. The only way a baby can get Hepatitis B, is if their mother has Hepatitis B and thankfully we do an amazing job of testing moms, knowing whether or not they have Hepatitis B, we know what the risk factors are for a person having Hepatitis B. So in my practice, actually just this past month, had my first baby who’s mother has Hepatitis B. I’ve been doing pediatrics for thirty years and I got my first case. Now that baby should get that vaccine. They obviously got the HBIG as well. That’s the kind of kid who needs that vaccine.
That means that 99.9% of my babies would have been getting a toxic dose of aluminum on day one of a vaccine they don’t need, that we now know does not provide lasting protection.
So that was sort of the beginning James of how I woke up to the fact that we have a problem here with our vaccine schedule, with the ingredients in the vaccines, it’s way too aggressive and it’s … You know it’s a one size fits all recommendation from the CDC that is being rolled out as if this is the right thing to do. You know there might be that rare person for whom that schedule makes sense, but for most people it just makes no scientific sense and the aluminum issue is big as I’m sure we’ll get into.
James Maskell: Yeah we can definitely talk about that. For those people who don’t know about my background, part of the reason I got fired up to do what I do, is that when I came to work in America in 2005 in this world, the first two clients that I met when I was a sales rep were moms who had basically recovered their kids from a vaccine injury. I first of all didn’t know that a vaccine injury existed and second of all didn’t know that this was recoverable in any way. It just sent me into a very strange world that no one knows exists, but I’m sure you and I know does exist. AutismOne and going to these kinds of events and hearing these kinds of stories and it certainly has influenced my thinking, because ultimately what we’re looking to do here at The Evolution of Medicine and all of our different projects, is build a medical system that works for chronic disease. Ultimately if we’re really interested in root cause resolution as a principle, we have to look and turn over every stone to look where the genesis of that chronic disease may be starting from.
From your experience is there reason to think that a certain amount of chronic disease has it’s genesis where you’re talking about right now?
Dr. Paul Thomas: Oh absolutely. The first chapter in my book The Vaccine Friendly Plan, which is actually an outgrowth of my experience in my practice, I left my group practice after that fourth case of autism and started a practice that now has over thirteen thousand patients and actually we’ve been closed to new patients pretty much, we still take newborns, but we’ve been closed for a couple years. The demand for ethical doctors who will do informed consent, meaning you talk to the parents about the risks and the benefits and the alternatives when it comes to vaccines as an example. Parents want this and they should get that and this is not happening.
Back to the root cause, it’s clearly not genetic in the sense that people who are listening might be thinking it’s genetic. We all know for example, Down syndrome where you’re hard wired with a genetic defect to have a child who has Down syndrome and that’s our image of genetics. You keep reading in the papers, you hear on the news, there’s a new genetic link for autism or a new genetic link for this and every other disorder. What people don’t realize is that those links they’re talking about are generally single nucleotide polymorphisms, SNPs and they really are not a hard wired genetic thing. They are how our immune system, how our body interacts with the environment. So when you hear genetic, think environment and I do believe to get to your question about root cause, it is largely the environment.
James Maskell: Absolutely. That’s super interesting. Well let’s jump into this aluminium thing now because this came out at the end of November and was kind of a big deal to those people who were paying attention. Can you share with us your history of looking at aluminium and then particularly now, the new research and what it means for you?
Dr. Paul Thomas: Absolutely. Aluminum if you’re in the US, I grew up in Africa where it was aluminium as you say. It’s kind of nice to hear that old way of saying it. This is the third most common element on the earth’s crust. So you would think this must be really, really important for our health. Turns out there is no, none, zero function for aluminum in our bodies. It turns out that at certain levels, very low levels, it’s quite toxic. It’s actually neuro toxic.
My first awareness of this came out of … It was around, that same time around 2001 I became aware of the fact that in the dialysis patients, there were a lot of studies coming out that when you do hyper alimentation, you feed people through a tube in their vein, the solutions for hyper alimentation were contaminated with aluminum. Apparently it was very difficult to not have that contamination. It was causing neurological symptoms, renal failure and the toxicity of aluminum became very well understood. At that point it was assumed it was just when it’s in the hyper alimentation. So if you were being tube fed in your vein, you could be poisoned with aluminum.
The FDA actually came out with a document that’s still available online that said “We should not exceed five micrograms per kilogram per day of aluminum.” Well when I saw that, it was like light bulbs. I knew we were injecting newborns, a newborn weighs about three kilograms, with 250 micrograms of aluminum and the FDA is saying don’t exceed five micrograms per kilogram. They were referring to aluminum in hyper alimentation, in other words, it’s going into the vein, but that’s not very different than injecting it right into the muscle.
In other words, both of those mechanisms whether it’s a vaccine or a hyper alimentation, you’re bypassing the gut, and this is the misunderstanding that is still being perpetuated by most doctors and the CDC if you go to their website, they tell you aluminum is safe. They’re referring to aluminum that you ingest, in other words, you take it by mouth, it goes through your gut. Our intestinal tract is set up to keep toxins out. So very little of the aluminum that you eat actually enters your body.
So that was my first sort of “Aha” and horror about aluminum. Since then there have been probably … I wrote a blog a couple two, three years ago about ASIA, auto immune syndrome induced by adjuvants, the main adjuvant being aluminum and at that time there were over twenty very important articles showing that aluminum was triggering auto immunity. We’ve since had publications like Shaw’s work that show that you can have motor neuron deficits at just 100 micrograms per kilogram, learning and memory impairment at 300 micrograms per kilogram and movement disorders at 550 microgram per kilogram.
Then there was a very important study that I think, if you are a scientist and you get into a discussion about aluminum, I want you to know about this study. It’s the Mitkus Study from 2011. Basically what this article pointed out was, there were some safety curves that were developed by the industry. So there’s a level where there’s no risk, or no observed adverse effects. So they kind of graphed out safety and they were able to show, and you have to have that article in front of you and look at the graphs. I would refer you to vaccinepapers.org, cause it’s addressed very nicely there and summarized in a way that even I could understand. Some of this stuff gets pretty technical.
Long story short, they were using old data on what amounts of aluminum were safe. When they readjust those curves, if you redo those curves, you will see that kids who are being vaccinated today in the United States and in fact in most countries around the world, are constantly for their entire first year of life at body burden levels of aluminum adjuvant. That’s that injected aluminum that will cause neurological problems where you will actually see … Have concerns.
So, that brings us … We start with initially a theory, “I’m concerned about aluminum.” We start to have all these papers coming out. It’s affecting the immune system, it’s causing actual learning problems, motor movement problems, developmental memory issues and then you come to this paper that was just released this last week, and this is important folks because I think it’s the first time we’re sort of proving what we thought to be going on. What we think is going on is that when you inject aluminum in a vaccine, think of those aluminum particles, they’re nano particles, they’re so tiny you can’t see them, but they are in suspension like little pieces of metal, when you inject those, those of us who give vaccines, know that very often there’s a large red reaction to those aluminum containing vaccines. Kids will have large swollen areas, it’s sore, it’s inflamed, it’s red.
What’s going on when that happens, is the bodies immune system, your macrophages, are coming to that aluminum going, “Woo, you are not supposed to be here.” They can engulf that aluminum, those nano particles are small enough to be eaten by the macrophages, think of your Pac Man white blood cells eating up aluminum. White blood cells can then move through the body, which they do, and they end up some of them in the brain, where they have now transported that aluminum to the brain … Course white blood cells only live three to six months, they’re gonna die at some point and release that aluminum in the brain tissue. It then gets incorporated into the whole immune structure of the brain because aluminum, again remember, is a very toxic molecule, has no biological function and our bodies immune system is designed to say, “Hey, grab ahold of this, do not let this loose, this is bad stuff.” It’s kind of like the Trojan horse mechanism by which the aluminum injected with the vaccine gets into your brain. That was theory.
We now have this manuscript, this article that was accepted for publication and it’s called Aluminum and Brain Tissue and Autism – Journal of Trace Elements in Medicine and Biology. What this article has done, is they took brains of autistic individuals who had passed and had donated their brains for research and they were able to pull up how much aluminum was actually in the brain. It was alarming what they found. In fact, they have never seen reported anywhere such high concentrations of aluminum in brain tissue for anybody. This really is the proof if you will, that aluminum in the case of autism is ending up in the brain, it was very highly concentrated in the astrocytes, in the microglia, so those immune cells of the brain and it pretty much … I think we now have an explanation for what we were pretty sure was going on.
I think honestly James, I think we’ve reached the time now where we really should be having a moratorium on the use of aluminum in vaccines. It just needs to be stopped. We need to say, “Enough’s enough.” I’m not anti-vaccine, I just want safe vaccines and unfortunately aluminum was sort of grandfathered in as safe. I was thinking of writing a book on aluminum actually. There are two already, I think there’s three. So there are hundreds and hundreds of articles on aluminum toxicity. This is well known, but back when it was first introduced into vaccines, I think in the 1940’s and 1950’s, there was just a study or two. Those studies didn’t go well. Rats who were injected with aluminum died very quickly. It was sort of swept away and lost in the archives of research and aluminum ended up being the preferred adjuvant. It was sort of grandfathered in as safe and we’ve never really gone back and challenged that assumption. The time I think is now to really do that.
James Maskell: Absolutely. I really appreciate you sharing this and this has been a topic that sort of kick started my passion to be involved in this space because I saw a lot of unnecessary harm happening. You know one of the things I would love to ask you about … One of my feelings is that in some cases the negative side effect of this thing is visible to the pediatrician. Right? In some cases, you’ve seen it be negative in the short term, but one of the reasons in my mind that maybe pediatricians feel like this isn’t happening, is because the damage that’s being caused could play out in a year, in five years, or ten years or maybe in thirty years they have unexplained early onset neurological, neurodevelopmental disorder.
It’s just like the sort of range of cause and effect is very difficult to predict in such an intricate system as the human body. I’d just love to get your thoughts on that because I feel like in any time where you see pollution affecting a system, even if you look at the planet Earth, you see that not all of the harmful effects are seen straight away, they’re seen over time, it’s a cumulative amount. I’d just love to talk about that cause I feel like maybe pediatricians don’t necessarily see the damage, it’s actually seen by a neurologist twenty years later.
Dr. Paul Thomas: Oh, well the neurologist, yeah, for sure they’re going to see things twenty years later. The Alzheimer’s that’s now happening in younger and younger people, there’s quite a bit of evidence that aluminum’s involved with that. Here’s the problem for pediatricians. As I gave my background at the beginning of the discussion here, we are taught that vaccines are the single most important thing that we can do for the health of the children that we’re taking care of. Coming from that perspective, you’re also being taught and you’re reading daily in the junk journals that get thrown at us, that vaccines are safe and effective. That simply is a huge overstatement and it’s not really looking at safety in the way that we need to look at it.
Here’s the problem with most of the vaccine safety studies, they look at outcomes maybe in the matter of days. I think it was the Hepatitis B vaccine that some of the key safety studies were looking at outcomes in a few days. As you pointed out, when you’re talking about damage from something like aluminum, where it has to be taken up by the immune system, transported around the body, there’s an immune reaction, there’s storage, there’s sequestration, that aluminum is sort of hidden, the body does it’s best to get rid of this toxin, and it may take months, it may take years, before you start to see the problem.
For the autism community, I heard and I have heard probably in the range of three to five hundred stories of children who where normal until some time after their MMR vaccine. Now the MMR does not have aluminum, so your listeners might be going, “Well where is he going with that?”. Here’s what I would say. We have preloaded these kids … If you talk about a birth, you’re getting that Hepatitis B shot with 250 micrograms of aluminum, at two months you’re getting a whole bunch more aluminum and by the time you’re a year old, eighteen months old, you’ve gotten in the three to four gram range, I mean just a huge dose of aluminum. Now you add the MMR vaccine with three live viruses that trigger a huge inflammatory response and it actually triggers the reactivation, the release of aluminum that might have been tightly bound in the brain. It’s sort of like pouring gasoline on a fire.
So that’s what I believe is probably happening with the MMR vaccine triggering problems. But you see, you’ve primed the gun for the whole first year of life with all these aluminum containing vaccines and then you pull the trigger with the MMR in this particular example. For a lot of people it’s just too much aluminum and the immune system response takes a lot of time. I’ve had a couple kids in my practice who were fifteen, sixteen year old girls, they came in with several months of subtle to not so subtle neurological problems. Both had been athletes and they started having inability to be … They lost coordination basically. They had extreme fatigue, they had mental fog, something serious was going on with these kids. Come to find out, they had been given the HPV vaccine at school without the parent’s knowledge, without my knowledge, I’m their pediatrician. I had to ask, “You haven’t had the HPV vaccine have you?” They said, “Oh yeah, we got it at school.” That story has been told again, over and over again where many months later after having gotten that vaccine, teenagers are having severe immune system problems.
Auto immunity takes time and I think aluminum is probably one of the biggest known triggers of auto immune problems. You know the entire book Vaccines and Auto Immunity by Shoenfeld? There are just hundreds of studies and he documents quite clearly how this is a real issue.
James Maskell: Well he’s the godfather of modern immunology. I think thirty of his students are like heads of immunology at different researchers. He’s done eighteen hundred papers. I mean that guy is the most legit auto immune researcher, probably on the planet.
Dr. Paul Thomas: Yeah. The thing is, take someone like Shoenfeld who is so reputable, in order to survive in this world of academia today, he has to walk a fine line when it comes to even mentioning the word vaccines. This is true in all of our institutions of higher learning, our scientists are not allowed to go there and that’s unfortunate, because science should just be about the science. There seems to be a conflict of interest in our scientific world that is making it almost impossible for doctors and scientists to come out and just talk openly about our concerns with vaccines.
James Maskell: Absolutely. So you know one of the things the community has been asking for, for a decade or more, is a vaccinated versus unvaccinated study and there’s been a couple that have come out, probably not that well created or that well organized as far as the study without the randomized elements or otherwise, but there have been some that’ve come out and they’ve been fairly damming, but also in a certain way fairly easy to sort of disregard.
I know that you have some plans to be able to look at pediatric outcomes based on an initial observation from your practice that’s not been very popular but is real. Maybe you can go into sharing a little bit about that.
Dr. Paul Thomas: All right. Yeah, thanks James. So when I left my old practice in 2008 and started my current practice Integrative Pediatrics here in Portland, Oregon, using the process of informed consent, when you tell a parent that your child does not need the Hepatitis B vaccine until they’re close to being sexually active, most parents get that. If mom doesn’t have Hepatitis B, they will choose not to give the Hepatitis B to their newborn. There’s no Polio in America, we haven’t had a case acquired here since 1979, so most parents would be okay waiting on the polio until they’re gonna travel to a high risk area. So using informed consent, we came up with a vaccine friendly plan and I’ve had a very high percentage of my patients choose to follow that sort of approach.
I’ve also had a small number, a very small percentage, in my data that I publish in the book, it was a little over two hundred patients that chose not to vaccinate at all. Again, I informed them of all the risks they are taking. They’re not huge, but they’re real. I mean there are rare cases of death from pertussis. There are rare cases of death or severe damage from meningitis. As a parent if you choose no vaccines, you just need to know what those risks are and you’re making a choice to take those risks. They do that because they also realize there are risks with vaccines. If you are going to present a fair informed consent approach then you need to allow them the option at least of choosing not to vaccinate.
So anyway, we looked at that data and we found that for the kids who were not vaccinated at all, we had no new autism, this was two hundred and thirty eight kids and they were by far the healthiest kids in my practice. In the group of over a thousand kids who followed the vaccine friendly plan, we had no new autism that persisted.
I still haven’t been able to get this data published. We’re still working on that. There were three kids out of that thousand vaccine friendly vaccinated kids who where showing signs of autism and in my practice, if you have any signs of autism or severe neurological problems, you just stop. No further vaccines. They all lost their diagnosis, their problems resolved. I had eight hundred and ninety-four kids who were most highly vaccinated and five kids in that group who had their diagnosis go away after we stopped further vaccination. We did have fifteen out of that group, for a rate of one in sixty who developed autism or autism spectrum in the most vaccinated group. So, that data is in my book The Vaccine Friendly Plan. We’re trying to get it published as well. We keep running up against some barriers there.
What really … What you mentioned was the need for a really well done study or some mechanism for looking and comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated. Mawson published in the Journal of Translational Science, this past year, it was a good attempt at comparing. It was a phone survey study comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated and the data was alarming. Right? Two hundred and thirty-eight percent were more likely to have a learning disability, ADHA or ASD. Three hundred and seventy percent more likely to have autism spectrum disorder if they were vaccinated and two thousand five hundred percent more likely to have allergic rhinitis. All the allergies, all the developmental issues were much higher in the vaccinated population. That’s a fun survey, retrospective study, like you said, it’s not ideal.
So I was sharing at a conference a few months ago about … At the end of my talk, I was saying, “I wish we could just do a registry and just register newborns and track their health.”, and a sharp young doctor, Dr. Neasly came up to me and says, “I can help you do that.” So long story short, you can go to phoinitiative.org and this is a non-profit we’ve established for the sole purpose of doing this study. We’ve already started the registry. We will be registering a thousand children who have been given informed consent and the parents are choosing not to vaccinate. We will register a thousand children who are being given informed consent and are doing the entire CDC schedule as recommended and we anticipate having several thousand who are somewhere in the middle. Parents who choose to do some but not all or slow down the schedule. Those children and their health will be tracked for eighteen years. This is an ambitious study being funded by the non-profit phoinitiative.org and listeners should feel free to check that out and support this important work.
James Maskell: Yeah, that sounds absolutely critical. Eighteen years is significant, sort of has a certain gravitas to it, kind of things like the Framingham study for heart disease or something like that where you are really seeing a big pool of people over a big amount of time. Is there a certain sort of moment where you feel like you would have to release the data? You know how in studies they say, “Well we have to end the study because we see just how alarming the difference is between the drug and the placebo.” What would have to happen to end this study early?
Dr. Paul Thomas: Well first of all, it’s not a study. This is just a registry, there’s no intervention being done. These are parents who are choosing to vaccinate a particular way anyway and all we’re doing is tracking outcomes. We will definitely report outcomes, I imagine this registry will be the basis of countless papers. We anticipate to have numbers we need so we’ll close the registry when we reach those numbers of at least a thousand unvaccinated and at least a thousand fully vaccinated. Then what we will do … When each child has reached age two, we will at that point, stratify the kids according to their vaccine status. So you could anticipate it may take us four or five years to enroll all of these children, and then wait two more years so that last one who’s been enrolled has become two years old. We will have an initial data set at that point that could be published and I anticipate it would be and then we will just continue to follow these kids.
In fact, if we raise enough money we’ll go beyond eighteen years. It’ll just be a matter of re-consenting and getting the participants to agree to have their health tracked ongoing. So this really could be a Framingham type study registry where you’re really looking at very long term outcomes. As you pointed out, I think there’s no question that things that are happening in infancy, we even know that things that happen pre-nataly can have profound effects on your health even in later life. This registry is going to try to look at much, much more than vaccines. Vaccines is just one little piece. We’re going to be looking at all the factors we can think of during pregnancy that might affect neurological development or chronic health issues as well as how long a person breast fed, whether they supplemented with Vitamin D, all the things that we can think of that might affect outcomes.
James Maskell: Absolutely, yeah. So the outcomes measures is very exciting to see and I wish you a lot of luck on this. We’ve just done an Evolution of Medicine for the Functional Form, which is our monthly show that has been going for four years, we just did an Evolution of Pediatrics, listening to pediatricians and other practitioners dealing with children every day, midwives or otherwise. This is not a topic that is easily talked about amongst professionals. Most have to sort of dodge, especially if they’re employed by the hospital. What do you imagine … Can you just talk into a little bit about sort of your experience of navigating that terrain? We have a ton of health professionals here from countries all around the world, what are some of the things you’ve learned along the way about how to communicate the message in a non-threatening, non-judgmental way to be able to make your point in a way that doesn’t get everyone shouting at you before you’ve had a chance to say anything.
Dr. Paul Thomas: That’s a really good question. I find it a lot easier to talk to parents than my peers. I think the reason is, whether it’s obvious or not, parents have their child’s best interest, for most and front and center right. We want to protect our children from harm and we’re wired that way, I think that just the nature of being a parent. So, when information changes, that is conflicting and contradictory, we have a real challenge and a dilemma. I think the parents can grab hold of the concept that maybe what we’ve been doing isn’t as smart as what we thought it was. There is new information, we should probably look at this. I think parents are a lot more open to that because they’re making right on the moment decisions about their child right then and there. “Do I give my newborn a Hepatitis B vaccine? Now that I think about it, it doesn’t seem to make any sense.”
Pediatricians and doctors are under a whole different set of pressures. There has been this sneaky, I’ll just call it sneaky, approach that has been rolled out. Who’s behind it, we can speculate, but this issue of quality measures, so when it first came out medicine in general, they’re trying to have it be high quality. So we are going to develop these quality measures so that we are judging our doctors on real measurable things. One of the quality measures that has crept into pediatrics is that of how well you are vaccinating.
It’s also crept into the hospitals, who can be judged on how well they’re vaccinating. In other words, what percentage of your newborns leave the hospital having already received the Hepatitis B vaccine? That’s actually been established in some insurances as a quality measure. With my understanding of the aluminum content of the Hepatitis B vaccine and the absolute insanity of injecting a newborn who’s not at risk, I would say the quality measure should be, “How many mothers who have Hepatitis B, got the Hepatitis B vaccine?” So, if this year at a big hospital, five moms had Hepatitis B, make sure all five of them got the Hepatitis B vaccine. That’s a quality measure that makes sense. Sadly, that’s not what’s being measured. They want every baby born in that hospital to have gotten that vaccine. So, when you have a doctor like myself, Dr. Paul Thomas, his patients eyes roll, “Oh, you’re with that doctor.”, because I’ve educated my families, those mothers who don’t have Hepatitis B are saying we don’t want our baby getting that vaccine. We’re gonna do it later. Eye’s roll, “Oh you’re with that doctor.”, and they see it as a threat to their bonuses perhaps or the quality measures that have been established by that hospital.
These are the pressures doctors are under. Some health plans are actually giving pediatricians bonuses for having fully vaccinated two year olds.
James Maskell: Yeah, can we just talk about that, because I’ve read that and I’ve seen that. I’ve seen that on The Blue Cross Blue Shield. So, it’s like if sixty-three percent of your whole patient population has the full schedule on time, then you get a four hundred dollar bonus per patient. I think that’s Michigan Blue Cross Blue Shield, so in a pediatric practice of two thousand, is that an average group, two thousand? That’s like eight hundred thousand dollars.
Dr. Paul Thomas: Yeah, it’s big money. Obviously I don’t practice in Michigan where that plan is in place, but you can just imagine these sort of quality measures or sometimes subtle little financial incentives, or in that particular example, not so subtle-
James Maskell: Well it’s not subtle also when the pediatrician is the least paid physician.
Dr. Paul Thomas: Right and I’ll tell you the reality of pediatric practice where you’re really doing informed consent like I do in my practice, which results in a very lower rate of vaccination, right? I mean none of my patients are fully vaccinated, they’re not gonna get the Hepatitis B unless they need it. They’re gonna put off some other vaccines, quite a lot of them, and I have a growing number of patients who don’t want any. The effect that has on my, just the business side of pediatrics, is just huge. I mean we are talking well over a million dollars in just a few years that you’ve just flushed down the toilet. In fact, I read of practices closing because they are unable to sustain themselves. Pediatricians provide a lot of care that’s not well compensated. We are on call 24/7, we’re answering advice lines.
I have one full time advice nurse and several part-time advice nurses and all of that is uncompensated. You just pay their salaries and they give advice and there’s no way … It’s not like attorneys where we can just start the time clock and charge by the minute. That’s just a tiny piece of the example. If you’re providing comprehensive care as a pediatrician, it’s expensive. It’s a very, very high overhead specialty and thus with that financial pressure that you mentioned, I think a lot of pediatricians are succumbing to this concept that it’s a quality measure after all. We need to do this cause that’s what makes us good doctors and it’s just easier to do it because you also get compensated, definitely you are making money on vaccines … I used to deny that, thinking “No we don’t.” There’s very little mark up and it’s true, there’s very little markup, but you may only make a dollar or two on a shot, but if a two month old is getting six different vaccines and there’s a fifteen dollar administration fee per vaccine, that’s well over a hundred dollars that you just made in less than a minute, well maybe a couple minutes for the nurse to draw it up. There’s huge profit in it. So, I think-
James Maskell: By each patient-
Dr. Paul Thomas: Multiply by each patient who gets vaccines at two, four, six, nine, twelve months, it’s just a tremendous amount of money that’s part of your overhead, and part of your bottom line. Conflicts of interest need to be looked at. I think if you could make vaccines financially neutral and have informed consent, true informed consent where patients are told the risks and the benefits and the alternatives, we would have a much lower vaccination rate and we would probably have healthier kids now that we’ve got this aluminum data.
James Maskell: I guess coming from Zimbabwe, like I actually grew up in South Africa, I didn’t know that you grew up in Zimbabwe, that’s why I say aluminum, right? I think what we can say, is it’s an economic principle really. It’s like diminishing module returns. There’s obviously value at a certain point and there’s not value at a certain part too. I think that’s …
First of all, I just want to appreciate you for being willing to talk about this stuff, because I know there’s not a lot of people that are. I really do appreciate that. I guess one person I want to just sort of share my appreciation for on this as well is J.B. Handling. I live in California where we have SB 277. The reason why we don’t have universal mandatory vaccination in Oregon is because of the work of a number of people, but I would say J.B. was fairly influential in that not happening. If anyone is listening to this, I really feel J.B. is one of the clearest writers and communicators on this topic. You can see his blogs on Medium, he’s written exceptional blogs on all aspects of this. He’s the founder of Generation Rescue, but I really appreciate everyone who’s willing to speak the truth and to talk about this.
Ultimately I came into this twelve years ago to try and find solutions for chronic disease and you just can’t look away from this. You have to acknowledge some part of chronic disease being driven by this. This is something that we can’t back away from if we really want to do something about the prevalence of chronic disease, the cost of chronic disease. I guess just appreciation to you, to J.B., to everyone in the community who’s come before that I’ve had an opportunity over the last twelve years to meet, so many moms, maybe in this culture now of people believing women about sexual assault, there’ll be a shift to a culture believing mothers about vaccine injury. Let’s hope.
Dr. Paul Thomas: Absolutely and I whole heartedly agree that J.B. has been a huge force in trying to get the truth out. He’s a friend. He lives here in Oregon and I actually help with the care of one of his kids, so I know J.B. well and he’s a real pure hearted guy who wants the truth to come out. He’s behind a lot of positive efforts to do that, Oregonians for Medical Freedom, he was instrumental. I was involved with that, getting that off the ground. For you in California and actually for anybody in the country in fact, Physicians for Informed Consent, PIC, physiciansforinformedconsent.org, they’re based in California, Dr. Shira Miller has been the force behind that organization, I’ve been involved as well, along with several other wonderful people.
With SB 277 in California where you can only avoid vaccinations if you get a medical exemption, they’ve taken away all your rights as a parent to make a decision about what’s being done to your child. It just seems incomprehensible that we live in a country that’s supposed to be free, but our bodies are not free. The state, the government can mandate that you inject toxins into your newborn for a disease that your newborn is not at risk at. I’m talking about the Hepatitis B, just as one example. If you don’t, in California, Mississippi and West Virginia, you can’t take your child to school. In California, you can’t even go to daycare.
This is criminal, it needs to be overturned, but there are a lot of forces …. Whenever you see something wrong that is being perpetuated on a massive scale such as this, you have to understand there have to be conflicts of interest at play.
It’s big, big money. So if you just take the Hepatitis B vaccine, the company that makes that vaccine is making over a billion dollars a year just from the newborn practice of three shots of Hepatitis B, birth, two months, six months.
Now what would make sense, is to take that vaccine and move it back to teenagers where it belongs. Let’s just say we move it to age ten, that would be ten years during which that company is not going to get their billion dollars. What company that’s already raking in a billion dollars a year is going to allow that to happen? They will put their marketing people in full force. “We’re going to keep this program, it’s an important program.”, and they’re gonna roll out their massive propaganda machine, which is exactly what happens. Conflicts of interest are just huge.
James Maskell: I worked my first job was a trader and I worked on there and working in that world and it’s not a conspiracy, it’s just the fiduciary responsibility of the CEO of that company to the shareholders to maximize shareholder value. He literally has to do it. That’s just a part of the problem.
Well look, we’ve gone longer than normal. I really wanted to just take the time to be with you, I really appreciate the book, the writing, all the work you’ve done, I’m really glad to be connected. We are going to come to Oregon later this year or in 2018 for some events around the IFM conference in July and looking forward to making some good content and we’ll see how it goes. Best of luck with your not study, but your registry. I think it’ll make a big difference for everyone, I hope that it doesn’t take eighteen years for us to work out that this is a problem, because I think that many of us already understand that we may be doing some damage that as a race we won’t walk away from. It’s not to late and I hope that this podcast serves in the progression of this plan.
So I thank you Paul for your time and if you want to check out Dr. Thomas, check out his book, A Vaccine Friendly Plan, check out some of the organizations that we mentioned today, we’ll have all of the details in the show notes. This has been The Evolution of Medicine podcast. It’s called The Evolution of Medicine because we are trying to adapt medicine to the new environment of chronic disease and if we don’t talk about this, we will not be able to facilitate that adaptation. We have to talk about it, you’re an excellent advocate for the community, doctor and thanks so much for being part of it. This is The Evolution of Medicine podcast. I’m your host James Maskell. Thanks so much for listening and we’ll see you next time.
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